Trying to understand my REM test results

nanowiz

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I have plotted the insertion gain settings (dB SPL) comparing the values before and after REM adjustments by my audiologist. These were done with my new molds. Here are the plots for my right and left ears:

REM Comparison - Right.jpg
REM Comparison - Left.jpg

I noticed the following:

1. Increased gain below 300Hz
2. Significant decreased gain 300hz to 2000Hz (as much as 10dB)
3. Slight increase in gain 2000Hz to 5000Hz
4. Steep falloff in gain after 5000Hz, even into the negative zone for loud sounds.

I felt a slight improvement in the sound post REM adjustment, but overall volume seems to have increased, especially sounds like moving a chair on the floor or the knock sound from putting down a cup on the table have gotten to be very annoying.

Just wondering if anyone can help explain the reason for these differences, especially for the high frequencies steeply dropping off.
 
I felt a slight improvement in the sound post REM adjustment, but overall volume seems to have increased, especially sounds like moving a chair on the floor or the knock sound from putting down a cup on the table have gotten to be very annoying.
I always intentionally steer clear of detailed discussions about someone's gain settings. o_O

However, loud/startling sounds are typical complaints for new hearing aid wearers who may have forgotten how noisy the real world is. Some get used to it and eventually appreciate hearing the loudness. Some don't and cannot, see search link to -> Hyperacusis.
 
Though, I'm curious to know what was used to produce the graphs?
 
I have been wearing hearing aids for almost 10 years. So not new to me. This loud issue was from the new settings I got from my audiologist, both in my old hearing aids and the new ones on trial. I asked her to update the old hearing aids with the new profile. So it is the new setting profile doing it.

I just type the gain numbers into Excel and plotted them into separate graphs, then overlaid them to compare the before and after curves.

To me, understanding how to adjust the gain numbers based on what they do for various hearing symptoms is crucial to getting the best settings. Surprised you guys avoid discussing it. Like here with the REM results. I want to understand the acoustics inside the ear canal that causes these changes.
 
Surprised you guys avoid discussing it.
Not "youse guys" ;) Just me. My plate is already full with DIY School, and plus I don't have the background education for this part of it.
 
My Audi did something similar (a couple months back) and Yes, things were much louder. Maybe you should give it more time because I got used the the annoying kitchen sounds now that a couple of months-or-so have passed.

Also, you might look at this -> Post from UB.
 
Not "youse guys" ;) Just me. My plate is already full with DIY School, and plus I don't have the background education for this part of it.
Understand, and I fully appreciate the support you are giving to everyone.
 
To @nanowiz , can you show us what your audiogram looks like? @pvc -> is there a way to input one's audiogram into one's profile so that everyone can see at anytime? If so, I'm not sure how to look it up. I think it's important to be able to tag one's audiogram along with one's profile. It's crucial to help understand what kind of hearing loss one has in order to make proper comments.

For example, the OP on this thread asks why is my gain dropping at the highest frequency range. How is anyone supposed to know if nobody knows what kind of hearing loss he has at this frequency range.
 
No, I have not seen any method for entering a person's Audiogram/Hearing Loss and have that available for display???

ETA: @nanowiz is such a Whiz at graphically depicting a set of number in a graph, I would guess that such a graph (in Red and Blue) will appear soon. ;)
 
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To me, understanding how to adjust the gain numbers based on what they do for various hearing symptoms is crucial to getting the best settings. Surprised you guys avoid discussing it. Like here with the REM results. I want to understand the acoustics inside the ear canal that causes these changes.
REM adjustment is basically based on the target gain curve that is computed based on your audiogram, and the target gain curve is based on one of the standard fitting rationale, usually NAL-NL2, depending on what your HCP chooses as the target fitting rationale. The target gain curve means that these are the gains needed at each of the frequency band to allow you to hear the sound at that frequency to the loudness level as should be, as determined by the fitting rationale chosen.

They put a mic inside your ear canal and play a variety of sounds on a loudspeaker (or 2) in front of you, and the mic measure the sound levels at each frequency band received inside your ear canal. This sound level is the end result of a combination of the performance of your hearing aids, how the actual fitting and the acoustic of your ear canal impact this sound level, etc. If this combination of amplified result does not live up to the targeted gain at that frequency, then the HCP would increase the amplification of the hearing aid to match the target level. If this combination of amplified result is much louder that what the target gain should be, then the amplification is reduced until the sound level matches with the target gain.

Like I said before, without your audiogram, it's hard to guess what's going on. If I had to guess based on looking at your gain curve, I would say that you probably have a ski slope loss, with the worst loss at around 3 KHz. But then after that, your loss is decreased (your hearing gets a little bit better) up to 8 KHz.

REM allows people to just simply make adjustment to meet the target without any guesswork and without having a PhD in audiology. No need to understand the intricacies of the acoustics inside your ear canals, etc.

Now as to why your post REM gain curves look different than your pre-REM gain curves in specific places, it's hard to say. But you said that you recently had new molds, although you didn't say what kind of fitting you had before that. The significant decrease in gain you have between 300-2KHz might be due to you switching to your new mold, which blocks in a lot of the sounds compared to your previous fitting, so now not as much gain is needed to replace the leaked sounds like before.

Why you now have more gain below 300 Hz? Who knows, because we have no clue what your audiogram looks like, no clue what our previous fitting is like, no clue whether your new mold has vent holes in them or not, and if yes, how big or small are they compared to the vent holes in your previous fitting, if any?

Why a steep fall-off after 5 KHz? Again, who knows because there's no audiogram information to see how well or badly your hearing is in that range? There are other reasons as well, for example, my hearing is badly "gone" at 4 KHz on, so I actually don't want any kind of amplification in that high range to avoid feedback that I may not even hear but audible to others, so I purposefully set my in-situ result to fake "perfect" hearing at 4 to 8 KHz so that my in-situ prescription does not do any unnecessary amplification in the range. There can be lots of reasons. Now hopefully you can understand why @pvc doesn't want to discuss other people's REM result.

By the way, have you asked your HCP all these questions? What did he/she say? You can probably get better answers from him/her because your HCP has all the necessary information about your hearing while all that information is not shared on your profile.
 
My favorite forum Admin says;

- Upload an image of your audiogram in our Gallery here: Media | Hearing Aid Talk
- After they upload, they can get the image's URL
- Within their Signature area, they can post the URL to the audiogram image there
 
Actually, I have posted my audiograms both from my Audiologist and from my in-situ test in the tread ‘Change in gain settings on first connect to Genie2’ in a comparison chart.
 
Just a note on how to post graphs here…
Assuming you have a windows PC… click shift+windows+s to bring up the screen snapper, select the region on your screen with the region you want to post using the mouse. This will capture it into the clipboard. Now start Paint and paste it there. Select crop to crop the image and save it to a jpg file. Now post it to this forum with the picture icon on the top of the text window and select this file.
 
Oh, OK, I can see your audiogram in the other thread that you mentioned now. It's really a shame that there's no mechanism to tag along your audiogram with your personal profile on this forum so that one can view somebody's audiogram at a click of a button anywhere that poster has a post. It's impossible to know if a poster has already posted his/her audiogram in another thread on this forum somewhere that you may or may not have seen. And even if you might have seen it, it's not realistic to expect anybody to remember where somebody's audiogram was posted in which thread how long ago. Because of this lack of a mechanism for people to see your audiogram, the best thing to do if you have a technical question that pertains directly to your personal information (like your gain curves or REM results or issues you encounter) is to post your audiogram at the beginning of your thread or in the post where you pose your personal question so that this information is always readily available to be referenced to.
 
Oh, OK, I can see your audiogram in the other thread that you mentioned now. It's really a shame that there's no mechanism to tag along your audiogram with your personal profile on this forum so that one can view somebody's audiogram at a click of a button anywhere that poster has a post. It's impossible to know if a poster has already posted his/her audiogram in another thread on this forum somewhere that you may or may not have seen. And even if you might have seen it, it's not realistic to expect anybody to remember where somebody's audiogram was posted in which thread how long ago. Because of this lack of a mechanism for people to see your audiogram, the best thing to do if you have a technical question that pertains directly to your personal information (like your gain curves or REM results or issues you encounter) is to post your audiogram at the beginning of your thread or in the post where you pose your personal question so that this information is always readily available to be referenced to.
Agreed. Good idea.
 
Thanks, I can see it now. We still don't know what kind of fitting you had, and what kind you switched to. By looking at your Genie 2 screenshot in the other thread, it looks like you have now switched to MicroMold Short with medium vent? What did you have before this? And what size receiver is in the new mold? Is it the same size as before the molds? And why did you switch to a micro mold?
 
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